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| Ruud Lubbers raises attention for Tariq Ramadan as Worldconnector | August 24 2009 |
| Recently the relation between the Erasmus University in Rotterdam, the city of Rotterdam and Tariq Ramadan has been broken.
This is a sad matter.
As a fellow-townsman and fellow Worldconnector of Tariq Ramadan I would like to remark the following.
The events that occurred in Iran around the elections are indeed painful and worrisome. However, is it a wise reaction to therefore break all ties?
Those who have been following Iran with interest will have seen the Friday prayer in Teheran, in which the supreme leader criticized the events in a remarkable way and called upon all, the leaders included, to acknowledge the mistakes that were made.
Then he summoned to live with the fact that the elections would have ended in a victory for the sitting president anyway and that therefore it is important to respect that choice and to restrain from violence.
Personally I wonder whether the President can still be credible in his function after the mistakes he has made, but these considerations belong to Iran and the Iranian people; not to foreign countries, not to the Netherlands and certainly not to Rotterdam.
The Friday prayer was both remarkable and encouraging to me; acknowledging mistakes, but also living with a political and electoral reality; the President just is very popular with the lower income groups in Iran.
It is obvious, that in the meantime, there is a need for debate in Iran, which also gives space to reformists and intellectuals. This should be stimulated from all sides; and especially in this area Tariq Ramadan can make a contribution.
He specifically has proven to be in the middle of the Islam and to want to advance the process of an Islam in modern times.
An interesting detail which I do not want to keep from the readers of this message is that these days the elections in Afghanistan are taking place. From my times as High Commissioner for Refugees, I clearly remember that even when the Taliban had been expelled, the Afghan women who had been living as refugees in Iran for several years, had difficulties going home since in Afghanistan life is so much harder for women than in Iran.
This is one example of the exemplary role that Iran could play in the world of Islam. Of course, therewith I hope that they will continue with the position of women and more in general with essential values as written in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and in the Earth Charter.
Historically seen, the Republic of the United Netherlands was a refuge for intellectuals. It is to be hoped that this tradition can remain standing in modern times. That is why I think Tariq Ramadan should definitely remain a Worldconnector.
Ruud Lubbers.
 Lees het artikel van Ruud Lubbers in het Nederlands zoals geplaatst in NRC Handelsblad.
Read the selected article by Ruud Lubbers
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| Khalid Ahmed Chaudry François-Marie Arouet Voltaire "I may disagree with what say, but I will defend to death your right to say it"!
This is just an edition to my today's comments for the critics of views of Mr.Ruud Lubbers. | | September 09 2009 |
| Khalid Ahmed Chaudry I am astonished on the reactions against Mr. Ruud Lubbers comments on the dismissal of Mr. Tariq Ramadan. All of sudden on the 4th of September by many critics (there have been no comments after 25th of August on this article).
How come that a group of people realized that the 'most positive, transparent and honest comments' should be condemned by a group of people as an collective attempt to attack on the most positive views of the writer?
I can't understand if our ex-prime minister is trying to build bridges among all those living in our country by using his authentic global views, not only as a Dutch individual but as a global citizen, a group wanted to criticise in a very very offensive manners!
I wish, that whenever we comment on the controversial issues, we should do this without any partiality, prejudice and not under the influence of our religious believes or political affiliations.
I support Mr. Ruud Lubbers and all those who are playing the role as bridge builder's for the sake of solidarity and harmony which we need very badly in our country by rejecting all sorts of narrow visions and narrow mindedness.
Let's love each other under the universal values and those of the Dutch ones. | | September 09 2009 |
| molenaar Mr Lubbers,
U breekt niet bepaalt een lans voor de Christelijke vrouwen in Iran. | | September 06 2009 |
| J.Morika @mohamed ali sept 4,
You reasoning is beside the point (and it is not true too). The point is that Tariq R. uses postmodern methods and that postmodernism is not in harmony with western philosophy as it is perceived by most people. For Ramadan the western societies are of a postmodern nature but, of course, islam is not. So he is to be regarded as an islamic fundamentalist (that tries to make misuse of western weaknesses) and not a reformer. And we in the west do not like fundamentalists, whether they are of a christian, islamic or whatever origin. | | September 06 2009 |
| Frank de Jong Only a Dutch politician could possibly be so out of touch with reality that he would write an article like this. What an embarrassment to the Dutch people! Besides the ludicrous content of this piece, any 12-year old student from any school in the Netherlands would do a better job writing in English. This is the best diplomat the Dutch have to offer the world? Ouch…. | | September 04 2009 |
| J. Jansen Mr. Ramadan is listed under "Knowledge and Advisory Centres". Sorry, but he does not qualify. Ref: hoeiboei arabist jansen, august 31 2009. | | September 04 2009 |
| Fernandus Wever Misschien verandert onderstaand artikel uw mening:
http://www.agd.nl/1083508/Nieuws/Artikel/Bewindsvrouw-Iran-niet-meteen-goed-voor-vrouwen.htm
Het is mijn inziens verkeerd Iran met Afghanistan te vergelijken: indien u een eeuw teruggaat in de tijd kunt u een Iran zien met zeer moderne opvattingen. Dit werd wreed verstoord door de revolutie in 1979 en verergerde alleen maar.
Wellicht een eenvoudig voorbeeld, maar voor Nederland zeer herkenbaar: als je als docent in het openbaar fietst, wordt je ontslagen. | | September 04 2009 |
| Hans Besseling De vrouwen in Iran mogen zelfs meeroepen dat Israel van de kaart moet worden geveegd om plaats te maken voor de Palestijnse terroristen. | | September 04 2009 |
| Ronald Matthijssen There's two ways of looking at this: in terms of human rights, there is a divide between countries who do and who don't respect the basics. Iran and many Islam-based regimes in the world don't count among those who do. By the way, so do many countries based on other religions or ideologies, but that"s beside the point when it comes to victims.
The other side is: what is a useful position to create a basis for human rights in the future? The Iranian people have struggled and lost. Is it because the dictatorship is too strong, BECAUSE of people like Tariq Ramadan, or is it because the opposition is not strong enough, DESPITE the fact that Ramadan says he's in favor of their rights? Is he in ANY position to help changing the regime, which he claims he is trying to do? If he is, we should be glad he is one of those trying to do so. If he's not, he's making himself more important than he is.
But does that make him useful or useless for the integration debate we are having in the Netherlands? If he acts like a spokesman for muslims, we should talk to him, instead of trying to ignore him, no matter his position. A dialogue with islam is what we want, isn't it? | | September 04 2009 |
| Manjid Being a from premier does not proof that he is right. Of course comparing any country with the Taliban ruled country would make an other country a heaven for women. Iran is not friendly to women that is a fact. Stoning of women have occur ed and they are forced to wear the veil.
Indonesia is a country that could set as an example for Islamic countries. Women have their choice to wear the veil and are not stoned. Although Indonesia is not perfect, but it is the country wear women certainly have so much more rights. | | September 04 2009 |
| Ron J. Hill As Link as Luns Mr. Lubbers. | | September 04 2009 |
| Anne Bergen Schande meneer Lubbers, ik ben blij dat u niet meer in functie bent voor de vluchtelingen. U verdedigt het Iraans fundamentalistische regime en vindt hoop in de woorden van Khamenei. Dat de Afgaanse vrouwen moeite hebben weer naar huis te gaan, is voor u een reden dat Iran een voorbeeld is voor de islam-wereld...! Wat een logica! Verder verdedigt u Taregh Ramadan, die voor dit regime werkt!!!
Dat vrouwen het in Iran beter hebben dan in Afghanistan, is, omdat de vrouwen in Iran hun verzet hebben georganiseerd, en de moed hebben, op te staan tegen dit regime. U heeft in Nederland niet eens de moed te zeggen, dat dit regime corrupt, en alles behalve Islam is. Schaamt u zich niet, nadat zo vele jongeren, vooral vrouwen, hun leven gegeven hebben, alleen maar om u DIT wijs te maken, dat het niet meer mogelijk is, onder dit regime te leven? Heeft u nooit van Neda gehoord? Of van Taraneh Mousavi, die in de gevangenis meerdere malen verkracht, verbrand en langs de weg teruggevonden is? Nooit gehoord van een 17 jarig meisje, die een paar dagen geleden met zuur overgoten, teruggevonden is??
Als u Iran zo"n goed voorbeeld vindt, waarom gaat u daar zelf niet eens in Teheran op straat lopen, en roepen dat "mensenrechten wat meer aandacht verdienen"?? Kijken of u dan NOG de mullahs aanbidt.
Of denkt u misschien, dat DAT Islam is, als u het over "een voorbeeld voor de islamistische wereld" heeft. Dan zou ik zeggen: houdt uw hoofd maar lekker in het zand. | | September 04 2009 |
| Janusz Waar is mijn reactie gebleven??
Mag ik niet stellen dat Lubbers zich moet schamen, deze vergelijking te maken?? | | September 04 2009 |
| Delta Mijn reactie heeft niets met Islamhaat te maken, maar met een verkeerde voorstelling van de Afghaanse vluchteling in Iran. Ik weet niet wat ze Lubbers hebben voorgesteld, maar de positie van de Afghanen in Iran is uitermate slecht. Ze worden nog slechter behandeld dan slaven.
Waarom is dit nu ineens Islamhaat?
Bovendien begrijp ik niet dat Lubbers lovende woorden spreekt over de ayatollah Kathemi terwijl die het volledig eens met het ophangen van homo"s en het stenigen van vrouwen. Volgens mij heeft dit alles niets met islamhaat te maken.
Bij Ramadan ging het om vertrouwen, dat heeft hij ernstige geschonden zowel in het verleden als nu. Dat Lubbers Iran en zijn heersers verdedigt ervaar ik als schokkend. Ook dat heeft niets met islamhaat te maken. | | September 04 2009 |
| Ruud van kersbergen This message has been removed | | September 04 2009 |
| paul van dam Het pvv-gif van de islamhaters heeft helaas ook al de site van worldconnectors bereikt. Kan dat niet worden tegengehouden?
Deze mensen zijn ziekelijk geobsedeerd door een een voor hen vreemde godsdienst.
Laat ze een eigen club oprichten 'clashes of the world'. Met hun nepprofessor Hans Worst als goeroe | | September 04 2009 |
| Bottem pincher This guy is an idiot.
Iran is a terrorist state where women don't have the same rights as men.
In Holland is is well known that Mr. Lubbers can't be strusted and is not trusted by the general population | | September 04 2009 |
| Daan This message has been removed | | September 04 2009 |
| Delta Then Haque Mr. Lubbers words are shocking. How cann he talk the position of Aghanistan women in Iran. It is a shame how Iran treats the Afghan refugeees. There lifes are less worthy then slaves. Was he blind and deaf as High Commissioner? How is it possible that he praises the 'supreme leader' who approves deathpenalties for innocent people. Where is mister Lubbers when young gay people are hanged even today? All according to the will of the 'supreme leader'
How cann he defend this terrible regime?
The point about Mr. Ramadan was not if he could be a good mediator. But as first cann the parties trust him. That is the whole question. Is he reliable? Does is it not standing in a book that the fruit tells me about the quality of the tree? Mr. Ramadan was also in the past not reliable, there were all questions about his ideas over women and gays. For many people he did not give realible answers.
Mr. Lubbers why do you support Iran?
| | September 04 2009 |
| Hagenaar Iran should be isolated as long as Iran clerics deny the holocaust, support terrorism and encourage self-killing.
Religion leaders care about worldly powers and not about believers. | | September 04 2009 |
| mohamed ali most of dutch (western)media are fundamentalistic vieuwers about islam(islam phopia)u guys need to relaxs ,the guy didnt comit a crime , | | September 04 2009 |
| David Leuw For stoning women in Iran they use 'lighter' stones than in Afghanistan. As an example how good it is for women in Iran. As Mr.van Helmond wrote he is an antisemit. | | September 04 2009 |
| Robert van Helmond lubbers is an antisemitic like most of his fellow CDA(christian democrats) partymembers like (f.e) van agt,shame on you lubbers | | September 04 2009 |
| Cor van Dam Dear Anne,
Thank you for pointing out the pro-Ramadan article co-authored by Worldconnector Halleh Ghorashi in the Podium section of Trouw. It shows the balance in the Dutch media and proves that the debate over islam is open and free. Unfortunately, the article itself is rather unbalanced since it claims or suggests that: (1) opponents characterize Ramadan as a dangerous fundamentalist; (2) opponents do not provide any proof for Ramadan’s fundamentalism; (3) former muslims such as Ellian and Hirsi Ali are dishonest intellectuals with a predilection for pleasing Western audiences; and (4) Ramadan is an Islamic reformer and a very honest one, too. Mr. Lubbers says Ramadan is a muslim intellectual on the run who needs the protection of an academic safe haven in the Netherlands. Mr. Chaudry even suggests that Ramadan is accused of unforgiveable crimes and is now being expelled, like a common crook to a remote exile. None of this strikes me as true, which fills me with profound sadness. If muslim apologetics (Mr. Chaudry) or defenders of such apologetics (Mrs. Ghorashi) really want a serious debate, they should stop misrepresenting reality and the arguments of opponents. As a further proof of balance in the Dutch Media I would like to point out the article by Amanda Kluveld in the Volkskrant of 25 August, in which she clarifies some of the financial and political links between Qatar (another co-financier of Hezbollah), the “ever so moderate” Al Qaradawi, Tariq Ramadan, Iran, and Oxford. Just look at the facts and try to disprove them, if you can, in all honesty. | | August 26 2009 |
| Anne Worldconnector Halleh Ghorashi has also reacted on Rotterdam's break with Tariq Ramadan in Trouw: http://is.gd/2xPew | | August 25 2009 |
| Khalid Ahmed Chaudry Removal of Mr.Tariq Ramadan from the Rotterdam University and the City Government should not become a source of friction within our society.
Its quite astonishing that some people are demanding for his removal from the Worldconnectors! The question is,Why we love to follow the dubble standerds? Do we have to follow the history when the criminals from the United Kingdom were use to removed from the the British soil to Tasmania (Australia) to expell Tariq Ramadan for his 'unforgiveable crimes' from all walks of life?
I fully respect the views of our ex-prime minister and World connector Mr. Ruud Lubers on this issue, 'that breaking ties with Iran leaving no space for dialogue is not a wise thing'. (its itself an extreme act to invite extreme responses).
On the remarks of my country fellow Cor van Dam that 'Tariq Ramadan is an arch-conservative'. With due respect to the writer I will have to say 'all those who called themselves believers are always conservatives'. And that is not a crime or reason to exclude somebody from taking part in the human societies.
Tariq Ramadan should get an opportunity to defend his expulsion (weather he have broken the rules and regulations of his service contracts or not).
We need to be very very careful before declaring individuals as Persona-Non-Grata's .
Any way, if he is removed from the World connectors then in that case I would call that 'Unfortunate Act ignoring the 'traditional Values (normen en warden) of the state of the Netherlands and the Article 1 of our constitution!
Let's not forget that 'We have to leave some oxygen so that every body living on Dutch Soil may breath ( pushing the people in a corner can never be an positive act). We all need to struggle for a better world and a stable Netherlands!
| | August 24 2009 |
| Cor van Dam Mr. Lubbers carefully avoids any reference to various well-founded objections made against Mr. Ramadan: (1) he has a poor record as an academic (see Hans Jansen in NOVA and Machteld Allan in hoeiboei.nl); (2) he is an arch-conservative islamic preacher (see Yusuf Azghari in Trouw 24 August); and (3) Press TV is a propaganda network (see wikipedia) with the usual lies and Holocaust denial. I can't see why an arch-conservative islamic preacher with very poor credentials who works for a propaganda network of a suppressive regime that finances international terrorist organizations such as Hamas and Hezbollah should continue to work in the honourable company of the WorldConnectors? | | August 24 2009 |
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